Tom,
Can you give some history of this program. Who is it? What is it? Whats the purpose of it? Do they play in a league? Etc…
I cant speak for anyone else but besides the videos of them on the site I have no idea who they are. Im in Philadelphia PA as a point of reference.
To me it looks like it’s a team type of development program. If that’s the case its an interesting way to do it. Is that like the USAH development program, just a European version?
Ballgame
The owner of the energy drink Red Bull lives in Salzburg, Austria. He is a sports fan and has a soccer and a hockey academy with young players being trained to progress to the pro team.
In hockey they have 2 pro teams the Div. 1 team plays in the Austrian top pro league and the Div. 2 team plays in the National League with 2nd tier teams.
They have a U20 team and a U17 team with players who live in Salzburg and most go to school there. The ones under 18 live in two residences and the older ones mostly in apartments. They train about 45 times a month with on ice, dryland and skating treadmill.
The top pro league has a point system. Last year they could dress up to 60 points for a game. So if u are on the Austrian national team you are worth 4 points. If u played in the NHL or American league 4 pts. They could bring players up and down from the second team until the end of January. The rules have changed a little this year but not that much. In other words there are lots of North American players (Ryan Duncan who won the Hobey Baker 3 yrs ago is there now).
They bring in coaches from all over the hockey world and Pierre Page (Canada) is the head of the hockey program and head coach of the #1 team. Rejo Routsalainen a 2 time Stanley Cup winning Finn and Gene Reilly and American college coach are his assistants. Jursinov a famous Russian coach comes one week a month to do skills in the morning. Mon and Wed with the pro's and T, Th with the U17-20. These teams have coaches from all over the world. All the coaches help with the morning skill sessions and also help each other with the team practices.
The idea is to produce an effective and unique way to develoip elite players. The program is in it's third year. They have never go to the finals in this tournament of European Champions before and this year they won all three games with 13GF and 4GA, which is very impressive.
Page watched hockey all over the world to study the best way to play and has designed an ultra aggressive style that mixes the best from everywhere. It gives no time and space when played properly and always has 4 players on the attack who constantly interchange positions. It is very entertaining to watch.
TomM
TomM,
A couple years back I coached a Bantam team. I put out two wingers, two centres and, one defenceman each shift. It was exciting, and we had good success.
Hockey could learn a lot from soccer.
Paulie
Paulie
Paulie that is how the Torpedo was developed. The Swedish team didn't have enough defenseman so instead used centre's. They averaged 11 min. in their end.
It is hard to keep constant pressure if the forecheckers all have to go from one side to the other. By having a midfielder on each side you take away the rim and the D to D to W or C that always beats a hard forecheck when the high F always has to go all the way across the ice.
Cause a turnover in their defensive zone and u get a scoring chance about 25% of the time. Cause one in the nzone and u get a scoring chance about 7-10% of the time. So all these forechecks that trap in the nzone are inefficient.
TomM
I am trying to get some more info on the Torpedo style of play and how to handle things such as faceoff responsibilities, regroups and zone entries. Can someone help out with some details.
Thanks
Paul
There are lots of ways to play the Torpedo. I will outline one way.
First you have to think a little differently.
Positions.
-2 Torpedo's or strikers who are always up ice on the forecheck.
-2 midfielders who come back in their zone and are part of the initial attack and forecheck and cycle on their side in the offensive zone.
-1 Libero or defensive defenseman who stays back.
These positions can either be assigned or can be read by the players who simply must be able to count to 5.
In your end you play one on and a box behind with the 2 midfielders and libero deep in the zone.
On faceoffs one of the midfielders either plays one of the 3 forward positions. Some teams have the centre and others a wing.
On a regroup the libero and midfielders fill the 3 low lanes and the torpedo's read whether they can stretch or give closer support depending on how much forechecking pressure. On a controlled breakout they would stretch in 2 levels.
Always have 4 on the attack. If the defenders are all back create a 2-1 on their widest defender while the middle two go to the net and mid slot. Also the weak side midfielder is always ready to go to the weak side for a back door pass or to pinch on a rim. When u lose the puck everyone has to get on their horse and come back hard thru the middle with the first backckhecker giving back pressure on the puck carrier.
If u go to the team play video's done in 2009 you can see the team practicing breakouts and regroups.
It is called Big Ice Hockey because you use the entire ice with width and depth and not just width as we do so much of in North America; though there is a lot of stretching now done in the NHL.
U can also decide whether you want a 2-2-1 kind of forecheck or a more controlled 1-3-1 with the torpedo's in the middle and doing a tandem. So u can decide whether to focus on pressure or contain. If they set up behind the net the 1-3-1 is effective.
This is one example. Another is to take the left wing lock and have the RD and LW as midfielders and the C-RW torpedo's and LD libero. Have the C be the low man in your end.
So whether it is 1-2-3-4-5 or assigned positionsyou can add a lot more depth to the game and constant forechecking pressure.
TomM
Tom - this is fascinating. generally speaking, is there always a Triangular shape strong side with a weak side player needing to read ? again, this could have an impact on the women's game much more rapidly than the men's; simply because there are less barriers to entry. another thing that is going to be needed is a goalie who can keep their head in the game and who is comfortable with the puck. ( there will be some 2 on 1's against after lengthy periods of attack zone & there could be a lot of dump-ins, just to make the torpedo have to turn and pivot )
Woops, just thought of one last question. Are you going to try this with your new women's team, Tom?
Pops
Pops I hope to implement this system. I like pressure. Here is a diagram.
TomM
Would you have any drills that would enable me to break this system down, I am planning on implementing this system with a Bantam aged team - a small and good skilled team.
Paul
Quote by: TomM
Page watched hockey all over the world to study the best way to play and has designed an ultra aggressive style that mixes the best from everywhere. It gives no time and space when played properly and always has 4 players on the attack who constantly interchange positions. It is very entertaining to watch.
Can you talk more about this? X/s and Os or any info. Very interested
Dr ABC
In the team play video's I have posted they are practicing attacking with 4, the breakouts, the dzone etc.
Pierre didn't have a job one year so he travelled all over and watched hockey and saw what worked and what didn't. He combined things like the left wing lock, the Torpedo, etc. and now uses the system I have described. The diagrams I posted show the rotations etc.
Austrian teams aren't supposed to beat the top teams from Russia, Czech Republic, Finland etc. but they did last weekend. Yesterday I talked with a pro scout who was there and he said they were amazing and totally deserved the tournament crown.
Systems only work if everyone buys in and the coaches teach it well. Both things are happening there.
I still wonder why NHL teams continue to play conservative "not to lose" styles when they are in the entertainment business. Studies show that causing turnovers on the forecheck is the best way to create scoring chances. 1 in 4 turnovers in the offensive end. Instead teams insist on the nzone trap that clamps down in the nzone and you get a scoring chance about 7% of the time.
Coaches coach to keep their jobs.
TomM
What would be some basic rules you can put in place for halfbacks to direct how deep they should get in the corner , when they should go down and when they should back off to the blue line, The players I have need guidelines so they can better execute the system.
Paul
Ahh ! The 2-2-1. My favorite. Gotta chime in here guys.
I still get confused on the midfielders/halfback terminology (sorry Tom, I'm trying!) but I just have my F1 and F2 go in deep and hard - all the time. F2 can be a sticklength back from F1 but in good, close support. Never shoulder to shoulder along the boards if at all possible. I don't want a lost battle or quick chip off the boards and then two of my F's are now behind the play in backcheck mode. Defensive side of the puck is key and that's what the F's are always told. That's their guidelines.
As for my other F (F3), is at approx 5 o'clock on the circle (if looking down upon the ice) if the pux in the "left" corner. If in the "right" corner, F3's approx at 7 o'clock. Ready to jump into a cycle. Ready to jump into slot for pass. Ready to take away swinging center's breakout support pass. Ready to take away diagonal stretch pass from corner. Key, key positional player.
My D1 (strong side D) mirrors puck (or rim) and goes to the opposing board winger's "back pocket". Not 1 stick length away. Not 2 stx. Not halfway and caught in 'no-woman's' land. Back pocket (keyword). Mere presence takes away outlet pass and forces a reverse or another D - D. Ready to step in front of outlet pass. Ready to pinch/angle against boards. Ready to jump into slot area for down low pass (attack with 4 principle). Ready for quick shot to net.
My D2 mirrors puck. Watches for diag stretch passes. Ready to race for rims. Ready for back door play when full puck control is had.
I don't even "practice" this formation in practices per se but rather take it to an outdoor rink with a soccer ball and walk thru this early in the year or program as Tom recommends. As well, this gets discussed before games or on the bench (between plays/periods) as need be usually for "reminder" purposes.
However, when in "formation" in the OZ, there are many basic plays happening that you can just "breakdown" and practice:
- 2 man cycles;
- 3 man cycles;
- various giv n go's;
- various SAG's that mimic the 'down low' battles and 'drives to the net'; as well as
various D only drills:
- D to D + shot from middle lane;
- corner to D1 (back pocket positioning stated above) to corner + giv n go + shot/net drive;
- corner to D1 (back pocket positioning stated above) to corner + rim to D2 (from positioning stated above) + shot (or + D to D + shot) >>> just be creative and mimic what would/could happen in a game situ
Tom has a plethora of drills he's used and recommends.
I've coached this to as early as pw and bantam aged boys AND girls ! The females are even more so like sponzes so they catch on quicker and are a little more "literal" so this can help.
Again, my favorite way to play. And when you get those D involved in the OZ and start attacking with 4 ... lookout !
Hope this helps and good luck with it.
Coach P7 your 2-2-1 is similar to what I am saying but it sounds like F3 is moving across the ice to the strong side. Which is good and similar to what I call a 2-1-2 with a pinch on a wide rim.
The difference is here.
RW and C forecheck deep on both sides.
LW forechecks deep on the left side and pulls back when the puck in on the right side.
RD forechecks deep on the right side and pulls back when the puck in on the left side.
Left D supports on the strong side point.
Of course if the left D is part of the rush then whoever is back and sees 4 players in front of them stays back. So you have 3 players cycling on each side and someone always going back door. What it does is take away a little more time and space and gives closer support.
http://www.redbullssalute.com/index.1.1.html is a link to the tournament results. They just went on a tour of Switzerland and beat Davos 3-1.
TomM
Tom, as the puck shifts from the left to right corner (rim), my F3 (who was 5 o'clock) now becomes F1 and heads off the rim (ie 1st F closest to the puk). The former F1 and F2 (in the left corner) become the new F2 (second closest to puk in corner) and supports the new F1 and the other F becomes the new F3 and takes position at approx the 7 o'clock I was talking about.
The D swing around in an umbrella type movement where the orig D2 goes hard to the half wall to support the new F1 (and becomes the new D1) and the orig D1 (who was "back pocket" when the puck was in the orig left corner) shifts over and is now on the blue line.
Sorry, no graphics just my lonnnnng worded explanation !
So, we do cover the wide rim pinch but keep the 2-2-1 formation.
CoachP7 you describe a good high pressure forecheck.
The difference with the one I describe is that the RW and C are offensive forwards. The RD is an offensive defenseman and the LW is a defensive forwards with the LD being a defensive defenseman. The LW and RD stay on their sides of the ice but forecheck deep etc. playing with the RW and C. So they are like midfielders in soccer.
You can't think of the traditional 3 F's in this style.
Like any system it is effective if everyone buys in and understands their roles.
Because all three F's don't have to move all the way across it creates pressure more quickly.
TomM
I need some assistance with bench management with the Torpedo system. I want to run with 4 Liberos, and 3 sets of four. Those four are the 2 Torpedos and 2 Halfback. I want to group these players into units and then have different Liberos work with them.
My biggest concern is how to manage the bench. Any suggestions.
Paul
Paul,
As someone who used the Torpedo one year I hope you can benefit from my experience.
Forecheck. I elected to teach the Cougar Pounce that Tom explains elsewhere on this site. Anything else was confusing and we frequently gave up odd man rushes. The major drawback was that we lacked a solid Strong side point position.
I felt that the forecheck was the major failing of the Torpedo system. The only solution I considered was to tell the Librero and one of the Half-backs to assume the defencemen's roles while in the offensive zone. As the half-backs were converted centreman, somewhat unsure of the role, I decided not to. I had a lot of opposition to the implementation of the Torpedo.
Face-offs: The Right Half-back took all face-offs on his side of the ice, vice versa for the Left. I didn't want to confuse things. The Librero always had net front. I also converted a few rushing defencemen to half-backs. They really struggled on the draw. In hindsight, I would have the best draw man take the draw. We were very poor on the draw.
Bench: I changed the Torpedo's. They came in the door and hopped the boards to go out. My assistant Coach managed the Librero's and Half-backs. Librero's used the door for exiting and entering play; half-backs did same as Torpedo's.
Paul, I hope this helps. If you want to discuss further you can email me at pf1flyer@pei.sympatico.ca
Cheers,
Paulie
Paulie
Paulie -
My plan is to become proficient in 'torpedoesque' methods during the upcoming months and then introduce them in the Spring. In theory (since I have no actual experience) it looks like a Triangular Shape in the area of immediate support, with a weak side reader and a dedicated D man might be the simple explanation.
I also hope to improve on the venacular, but this is my silly concept at this point
1 Scout ......immediate support / pressure
3 Calvary...basically Mid Fielders but one is 'weak side' responsible
1 Reserve Trooper.....the D Man
1 Guard.....the Goalie
1 Fort.........the Net
1 Wierd Coach.....me
Pops
My team from last year just won a tournament with top teams from Russia, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Finland and Germany.
They beat the German team from Manneheim, Moscow Red Army, and Sparta Prague. Espoo from Finland beat Red Army for Third and Manneheim beat the Swiss team for 5th.
13 GF and 4 GA in the 3 games. Great result for aggressive hockey.